This ACC is slowing on almost all curves on the road Typical in chinese cars. I can add the LCC is working very well and is leading the car in the middle of the lane without any issues. Only problem is that alarm for keeping hands on a stearing wheel is on every 30 seconds

 

driving roads in France. ACC is nothing like any car I've driven that has ACC in the last 10 years.

Curves in the road quite normal here. Slowing down from 80 to 40, once already in the curve, getting confused in the curve and then ACC "giving up" and switching to manual driving, where the regen braking will actually bring the car to a totally unsuspected stop in the middle of the road???

Sorry, that's a safety issue.

It's not only curves. Straight line but going uphill? Also simply got confused and did the same.

Had this car for a week now, but slowing down in curves is unexpected and vehicles behind will never expect a driver to drive this way.

If I did this in front of a gendarmerie? They'd pull me over and make me do a breathalyzer.

Beyond bad, probably dangerous.

Raised the issue via our dealer. We have a C10 BEV. They raised to Leap. Their request was if we had already update to v3.50... on a BEV, where the latest is v3.40... I sent the query back for clarification.

Car has much promise - truly. So hopeful. But they need to rethink ACC on curves. It knows they are curves as LCC shows them as curves, but once in the curves, ACC seems "afraid" because there is not a road directly in front of its "eyes", and if it doesn't totally "brain fart" in the curve, it will accelerate after figuring out "oh, there's a bit of straight road in front me know".

Poorly trained for this scenario, or the scenarios themselves poorly defined. Surely fixable, although I have some doubts about CPU speeds, it just does not seem to be truly aware of the last second or so...

Perhaps the non-LIDAR versions need help?

 

estoy totalmente de acuerdo con Dolmenes actualmente es peligroso usar el ACC ya que va a tirones constantes es un riesgo a ver si llega pronto una version que lo solucione.

 

I'm quite certain Stellantis will do the necessary to get this working in a manner that is compatible with driving expectations in this market. I own another Stellantis vehicle with ACC, and it doesn't behave like this one does.

Our Mitsubishi with ACC also doesn't behave like this.

Someone posted that slowing on curves is normal for Chinese cars? Even if it is, it would be unexpected behavior on the roads in Europe.

It might be that the software is actually trying to do more than older ACC systems? If so, they should "dial that back", it's making itself crazy trying to ascertain which speed to maintain in curves. These are 80km/hour and 90km/hour curves. I can drive these in manual mode with ease in the C10 - so I have no idea what sensors/parameters are telling it to "slow down", but the drop off from 80km/hour to +/- 45 (!) inexplicably and unexpected for other drivers is enough reason to get this fixed ASAP.

I'm recently retired but have a product and software development background. I'm not so alarmed per se by what I'm seeing. Leaving it like this though? That could be a brand-killer and nobody wants that. Stellantis is going to sell a lot of Leaps soon - I think they been forward-thinkers for doing this joint venture - and hey, selling cars is their primary reason to exist right?

They'll fix it - I'm sure

 

Ik heb vandaag op de autostrade in de Comfort modus gereden en moet zeggen het is beter dan in de Eco modus. Maar hopelijk zal men er in de volgende update een bruikbaar iets van hebben gemaakt.

 

op rechte stukken? ik kan mij idd voorstellen dat er enige "smoothing" van "gas geven" en "gas minderen" wordt dan ervaren. Iets wat zij makkelijk softwarematig kunnen toevoegen aan alle modus.

daar ben ik dan hoopvol over!

waar ik mij echt zorgen om maakt zijn flauwe bochten, het gedraagt zich als "eerste rijles bestuurder" en daar moeten ze echt aandacht aan spenderen, desnoods advies om het uit te zetten. Als ik in een C10 rijdt met ACC aan, met een Peugeot 3008 met ACC aan achter mij hebt rijden, wordt de 3008 echt gek van. Als dat een vrachtwagen is? Dan wordt de auto van achter geramd. Het gevraagd zich geheel verkeerd en niet compatibel met andere verkeersdeelnemer, zij ze met of zonder hulpmiddelen zoals ACC, CC, of niets.

 

The cruse control is horrible and has not improved with the latest update.
For me the two big issues are the unpredictable decelerations and the terrible method of speed holding.

The unpredictable decelerations are dangerous. The cars following me drive by anticipating my actions. If the road ahead is straight and clear they are not going to expect me to slam on my brakes. But that is what the C10 does. It overreacts to other vehicles, reacts to non-existent vehicles and in curves reacts to objects at the side of the road as if they are in the middle of the road.. Another issue is the flashing of the hazard lights. If a vehicle in front of me switches on it's hazard lights then my first reaction is to look to move into another lane to give them room. After all if somebody has the time to reach for and switch on the hazard lights they aren't signalling that they are going to slam on their brakes. They are normally signalling that they need to urgently pull over and letting people know to give them space. So the C10 flashing the hazard lights gives a false idea of what's going on. It would be better to rapidly flash the brake lights. That would cause the following vehicles to immediately decelerate which is the desired reaction.

Then there is the speed holding method. It is not great. It uses constant tiny speed corrections that are a recipe for motion sickness. How hard is it to use software to adjust the speed in a smooth manner that gets to the desired speed rather than constantly accelerating and decelerating? It's as if the computer has a low resolution view of the speed. Like it can't accurately see the speed. Maybe only sees tenths of a kilometre and so when the speed starts to drop it doesn't see it until it drops enough and then it over reacts when accelerating but doesn't notice until after it overshoots. So then it decelerates too much trying to get back to the desired speed and over shoots again. It repeats these micro speed changes over and over. I have driven many other brands of cars with cruise control and never felt these constant micro corrections. Maybe these other cars were using an analogue system that had no sampling issues. They always seemed so smooth.
I am also concerned at how much these constant accelerations and decelerations may be adding to the energy consumption.

 

intelligent questions, and I've simply got to believe similar conversations must be happening within Leap based on all of the recent feedback.

You're absolutely right, "smoothing" can be done in code - easily. I'm quite a bit more concerned though about "recognition" for ACC, as if the road in front of it "bends", it's lost. It only recovers if it finds straight road in front of it again.

The emergency braking for traffic "crossing" our path engaged the other day. Indeed, a panel van approached from the right. Quickly. It stopped though, without locking up. The guy was just in a hurry. The C10 properly identified that something might happen, but completely did not register that that panel van stopped, but slammed on our brakes anyway. It made me wonder if what we're missing is the LiDAR radar and that is affecting ACC and other functions? I don't know - I just wonder. Seems like they're doing much correctly, but "miss something" essential. What that is? I don't know, but ours are certainly not the first cars in the marketplace with these features.

Stellantis has both something to gainer lose with this joint venture with Leap - I would expert that Stellantis is doing knowledge transfer -> Leap on how ACC is supposed to "behave" on EU roadways.

I'm hopeful - truly. Stellantis needs Leap to be a success, and we early adopters are key to making that happen.

 

The camera vision only method of determining road conditions and hazards is very flawed. With enough processing power and sophisticated software, maybe it could match human eyes for detecting the road conditions. But not even Tesla has managed to achieve this. See the YouTube video of the CrunchLabs test for a real world comparison between Tesla vision based systems and a LiDAR equipped vehicle. Also LiDAR exceeds human vision and so improves safety, camera vision does not. Why go with a camera only system? I suspect the reason is cost and possibly wanting to follow Tesla's example.

For me ADAS has two big issues.
With many ADAS safety features, they work well enough for the driver to start to trust them but not well enough to be a replacement for an observant driver. So a driver may become less vigilant, relying more and more on the safety features. So then when the safety features fail, peoples lives will be relying on a driver that is blissfully unaware of what is happening and is unlikely to react correctly or in time.
The second issue is that ADAS often behaves in a manner that is not able to be anticipated by other drivers. This is a big problem, as most drivers drive by anticipating what other drivers may do. We become quite proficient at assessing another driver by subtle and sometime not so subtle driving behaviours. That feeling of just knowing another driver is going to pull into your lane. Well ADAS makes that impossible as it's behaviours are often unpredictable and extreme.

 

thoughtful response, but I want to focus on practical first, and then the underlying technologies used.

2025... there are decade+ of good ACC, and various collision avoidance systems implemented already. Even with the Stellantis group. Our Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV also has nearly everything on the C10, excepting correction for lane departure, which is only a warning beep on that car, but our 2019 Peugeot 3008 has ACC and collision avoidance with actual correction to stay in-lane for lane departures.

Did they use LiDAR? I don't know, and consider this more of an implementation detail than anything else - a choice that Leap takes upon themselves to design and implement, and in Europe, under the Stellantis umbrella.

What I find troubling is that the C10 unexpectedly gets cautious where drivers behind us simply are not expecting a vehicle to slow down when the road ahead is open, free and clear. It is "anticipating" poorly, and reacting in a way that would cause any human to fail their drivers' exams if they did the same during an exam.

Most troubling though, is that I've observed the ADAS literally "giving up" with only ACC, and if the car is in one-pedal mode, a beep, a message in the display (in a curve where I am steering), and then a sudden drop off of speed is highly unexpected "driver" behavior. Again, if a human did this? We'd fail our exams.

If, the implentation can never be practical without LiDAR sensors??? Then that's a design choice and a self-inflicted wound to Leap's entry onto the marketplace. Somebody there believed this was good and realizable without the LiDAR "wart" on the Chinese models. I hope they're right!!! Really!

I don't think any of us are expecting autonomous driving from the C10, but ACC is hardly "bleeding edge" functionality.

Let's see what they come up with as a fix. We've only had ours a week, so the lane correction pulling the car into guardrails sorts of behaviors we've never experienced ourselves - but man, this ACC is pretty gruesome - I'm very, very, very surprised that this made it through all of the usual QA and compliance testing.